Outside [!OT]

[One Classy Bloke]

I've read that rant. Tis a good one. That site has the best rants.

^_^ I just remember one of the signs. It had a pic of Bush, and a small circle which zoomed onto a ring on his finger. That ring looked a lot like the One Ring. Written in green was, "Frodo has failed".

[Psyco Sephiroth]

lol!

[mrwiseman]

IRT Smelly Cat: Yes, they should've erradicated saddam and his minions back in the gulf war. Maybe they'll finish the job now. It's not completely true that their neighbours do not want the war... the Kurdish people do want it, so the Kwaiti(sp?) do. I know there's oil behind this Iraq war, but I want saddam out and no muslims being a serious menace, so I don't care if the USA do this job for me, even for their own selfish reasons. I don't like the USA being the self-proclamed Police of the world, though, but just wait until the EU gets stronger, Russia gets better, and Japan and other powerful eastern countries unite. My hopes are that Europe will regain its traditional hegemony, maybe with the integration of Russia in the EU in 15 years or so. As for pollution, well, as I said, I hope we'll be able to force the USA to recude pollution soon enough. Actually, we could start doing that right now, if the EU, Russia, China and Japan act together. As for Israel vs. Palestine, I don't like either of the two much, but if I had to pick one of the two, I like Israel a bit better. The USA being a democracy or not is non of my business (though I think it is). Finally, I don't think the USA is more dangerous than Irak. At least the USA won't start doing yihads here and there just because of religion, nor they treat women as slaves, nor they hate my country, nor they plague Europe with illegal immigration, nor they act too stupidly, etc.

IRT OCB: Nice avatar. I'm sorry but I won't join that group. My reasons to not be against the war are in the bottom of this post.

IRT Xellos WRT the second link: I dont' have enough time to read it, but I've quickly read a couple things that make a lot of sense. All I want is saddam, his supporters, and Iraq's political system erradicated, so if there's a better way than war to do that, I'll support it.

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Updated reasons (mine) for not being against the war:

1., 2. and 3.: Read my previous posts.

4. (new one): This war is gonna cost my president's party the next elections. He knows this pretty well, and still, he explains that he'll do whatever he thinks it's best. This says a lot. While most political forces in Europe are against the war to earn votes, there are some ones that, even knowing this will hurt them and deteriorate their image, they are willing to support actions against Irak. I think if they do this, it's because they think it'll be best, and they care more for the country than for themselves - which is something most parties don't do. The Spanish official position is to support the UN resolutions, and there's already one that says Irak is to be attacked should it not cooperate with the inspections. The UN already decided, by unanimity (yes, with the support of France, Germany, etc.), to attack Iraq.

[Dragonrider]

I just don't know what this'll come to..

[One Classy Bloke]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana,Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#E0E0E0"><font size=2 face="Verdana,Tahoma">Finally, I don't think the USA is more dangerous than Irak. At least the USA won't start doing yihads here and there just because of religion, nor they treat women as slaves, nor they hate my country, nor they plague Europe with illegal immigration, nor they act too stupidly, etc.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you get a bit more time Wiseman, read all the rants on http://www.furinkan.net/ Maybe you're learn something about the US other than the pretty face they put on for the rest of the world.

At the protest, logic flowed like a river. With Bush, his logic was stopped by dam of ego. Most of the americans, mainly people from Texas (like Bush) have a massive lack of understanding. If you read those rants, you would understand what i mean. Maybe you would understand that you're not so wise to support the US. I really hope the US would get a smart president soon.

Btw, your comment on "most political forces in Europe are against the war to get votes" couldn't be any more false. If the people in those countries wanted war, the government would not get the votes they want. Clearly because the people don't want war puts them in power. France, Germany, Russia and Britain all know what war is, and what it does. We know because we had the lion's share of war in the first half of the 20th century. We learned from our own mistakes. Apparantly the rest of the world does not learn from other's mistakes.

[mrwiseman]

IRT OCB: I'm not specially pro-USA, I don't like a lot of things it does, though I do like some others, and I find some others rather useful. I don't unconditionally support the USA, I never did, and I never will (the only country that I might unconditionally support is my own). I'm just timidly supporting actions against Iraq because I consider eliminating treats useful. I would support China if they wanted to attack Iraq, too. I don't care which country, I just need saddam dead.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana,Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#E0E0E0"><font size=2 face="Verdana,Tahoma">Clearly because the people don't want war puts them in power</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that's exactly why many of them won't support war - they just do math:
- x votes if I say "it'll be good to respect the UN resolutions and attack Iraq altogether"
- 2*x votes if I say "it'll be bad, bad, baaaad to attack Iraq"
and that's what they say.
Those parties are dull, don't have any ideals other than getting votes by saying what the people wants to hear. In fact, I consider an act of bravery for a politic party to support the UN resolutions, as it'll be supporting an ideal, even when others don't like it. (I admit, though, that there are some parties whose ideals always were against all wars; I don't criticize them for not supporting the war now.)

[Xellos]

Chris (owner of Furinkan.net) has definetly got the best rants I've seen on sites, ntm fanfics ^^

But, if you're going there just to see how bad he thinks the US is, then don't read em all. A few are about anime, a few about church, a few about sexuality, a few about books and movies, etc, etc, THere always good reading though

[Xellos]

Yeah, my freind sent me that pi c XD

[One Classy Bloke]

Good point there Wiseman. It is pretty brave of the Government to support the war against the will of the people, probably losing their control of the country in the process. But hey, if it frees the Iraqi people from Saddam, i'll be happy anyway. Let's just hope the US doesn't screw it up again.

[melfice]

En ese sentido estoy de acuerdo, Saddam es un Capullo, y lo ultimo que me gustaria ver es un monton de ataques biologicos sobre cualquier sitio del mundo (y especialmente en Espa?a, y m?s especialmente en Granada, el ultimo sitio del que echamos a los moros de nuestro pais, por lo que este sitio en el que vivo es especialmente sensible)

Hay muchos estudiantes musulmanes en la universidad andaluza, por un acuerdo que tiene el gobierno espa?ol con Marruecos por el que a los estudiantes marroquies se les admite tambien como estudiantes comunitarios.

De todas formas est?n bastante controlados, y casi nunca han dado problemas... (el unico que dieron fue cuando fuimos al SIMO TCI hace ya 6 a?os, y este chico musulman que fue quiso iniciar una discusion sobre lo mal que vivian las mujeres en los paises marroquies, un hecho del que ?l personalmente estaba en contra, y en aquel momento no nos encontrabamos de humor para discutir algo tan "profundo" pero bueno [img]smile.gif[/img] .

La "postura oficial" de ellos es que estan en contra de Saddam, pero tambi?n en contra de la guerra contra Iraq.

En fin, no se que pensar, pero desde luego lo que no quisiera es un "genocidio" en mi nombre. Si hay que mandar al infierno a Saddam, de acuerdo, ha demostrado ser un tipo perligroso, y desde luego esconde m?s de lo que la gente se piensa, pero no a costa de matar a un monton de personas, que lo unico que ha hecho ha sido nacer en un mal sitio en el momento equivocado. Si hay que destruir algo, que solo sean objetivos militares. Que el plan inicial sea liberar al mundo de un ser peligroso, no exterminar arbtrariamente a la gente de Iraq

Sorry for not providing a translation, but i wanted to be sure that my idea is correctly understood.